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Entropy 2

Posted by
CElliottUK (Reading, United Kingdom) on 28 December 2011 in Cityscape & Urban.

Part of my annual holiday fun is to have a massive clear out to reduce clutter and disorder(Entropy) around me. Success is measured in how many black plastic bags I can fill.
These days, of course, re-cycling is de rigour, so sorting into categories is essential.
Our re-cycling centre has a category for almost everything, but I was a bit surprised to find a bin for "Books and Music". Re-cycling for the learned and artistic only, perhaps

Panasonic DMC-TZ20 1/60 second F/3.3 ISO 640 24 mm (35mm equiv.)

Mirjam from Kyiv, Ukraine

It's times of re-cyckling. Here in Ukraine it's natural you re-use and re create the items, I don't know how many times.

28 Dec 2011 5:22am

Nicou from Sion, Switzerland

Génaile compo de recyclage, c'est l'avenire, splendide.
très belle journée

28 Dec 2011 7:34am

PRASHANT from Mumbai, India

Great & useful arrangement....

28 Dec 2011 7:40am

Calusarus from St Sorlin en Valloire, France

What a strange spot ! Very interesting to see their parking area…

28 Dec 2011 7:43am

Francisco Romero from Carbajal de la Legua, Spain

Very good find.

28 Dec 2011 8:06am

Doug from Burnham-on-Sea, United Kingdom

What a fantastic recycling centre, I've seen books before, I think it was a Salvation Army bin, but music is a new one on me, the view over them makes an interesting image

28 Dec 2011 8:08am

Evelyne Dubos from Le Mans, France

an unusual re-cycling category indeed... never see that here... for the moment ! But why not !!

28 Dec 2011 8:41am

J.R. from Urasoe City, Japan

Maybe I should try that around my computer station I have stuff piled up and only a peek hole to see the monitor!

28 Dec 2011 9:20am

Nigel from Avening, United Kingdom

You managed to beat the rush !

28 Dec 2011 9:24am

@Nigel: Haha-, my son and I filled my car to the roof with differently sorted bags, I turned the corner to the tip and whined at him "Shit, no queues"-he thought I was mad wanting to be delayed, but we sailed in and out without what I was hoping would make a good AM3 shot!

Curly from South Shields, United Kingdom

I'd like to show you ours, but it is not such a pretty place with lines of 40 ft skips as far as the eye can see.

28 Dec 2011 9:35am

Mandar from Kudal, India

Nice

28 Dec 2011 10:07am

David from Avranches, France

Books and music? Well I never.

28 Dec 2011 10:24am

grouser from Ludlow, United Kingdom

If life is anti entropic how would you describe the consumption of fossil fuels? Did you post late yesterday? I missed all that cash :)

28 Dec 2011 10:55am

@grouser: Yep, late post. Too much beer-entropy causing order to go to disorder! Right-local entropy works like this.. The Universe always increases it's Entropy, however, life can decrease "Local Entropy". So a plant takes air(A complete mix-it has no order, one litre of air is the same as any other litre), and minerals equally dissolved in water, and uses the energy of the Sun to make a plant. The plant is complex and highly ordered, and therefore has a lower entropy than the air water and sunlight. HOWEVER, the process is always inefficient, so overall, the Universe's entropy has increased. So, when we burn fossil fuels, entropy is increasing-highly ordered oil molecules are burnt to produce highly disordered Carbon Dioxide and Water) So, net net, life can decrease local entropy, but the universes entropy always, but always increases. It can also be said that whilst our local entropy has increased as there are more of us, the rate of entropy becoming higher, has very much increased as a result of our activities. Now here's a philosophical thought... Let's say that there is a God He/She must like disorder, as that is the direction of the Universe! Or another way of putting it is that God created total order, but ever since that moment of creation, the universe has been getting more and more disordered, and further and further away from the grand design. Does this all make sense?

vrinda from abu dhabi, United Arab Emirates

NO,no for books and music...

28 Dec 2011 11:41am

daniela scharnowski from Berlin, Germany

I´ve saw that place before - must have been last year ;)

28 Dec 2011 12:10pm

@daniela scharnowski: Indeed you have. This is my annual pilgrimage to the local re-cycling centre-if we are both doing AM3 in a years time-you'll see it again. Aren't I predictable!!

grouser from Ludlow, United Kingdom

yes it does Chris, though the nuclear reactions in Stars are creating more complex atoms, which if I grasp it correctly, is anti entropic.

28 Dec 2011 12:30pm

@grouser: Yes and no. If you take the overall energy equation of those particles, the process of creation of those complex atoms is wasteful, energy is lost as heat(Heat is the lowest form of "Useful" energy) To, again this is a "Local" vs "Universal argument". The new atoms have lower overall entropy, but guess what, due to the inefficiency, the Universe's overall entropy(Disorder) has gone up.

daniela scharnowski from Berlin, Germany

being predictable is a good thing if you ask me. I´ll be happy to see the recycle palace again, next year. ;)

28 Dec 2011 1:20pm

Olivier from Manage, Belgium

The indoor light is very good...

28 Dec 2011 1:26pm

grouser from Ludlow, United Kingdom

Surely the heat is not actually lost but disseminated throughout the Universe. After all that big bang radiation is still out there, presumably forever.

28 Dec 2011 1:27pm

@grouser: Ah, it's about energy difference. Imagine the end of the Universe, everything is the same temperature, all the stars are lifeless lumps, the same temperature as their surroundings. That is a state of 100% Entropy... So, when processes are inefficient, and they give of energy as heat, that heat will slowly spread out making it's ability to do work become less. So whenever heat is produced(Which is the bottom useful energy type), entropy has increased. One last example, let's say you carry a stone to the top of a mountain. The stone has increased it's energy level, because you've given it potential energy(i.e. if you dropped the stone off the mountain, it could use its energy to smash something), but you are all hot and sweaty because the process of carrying the stone up the mountain is inefficient, and therefore heat has been created. That heat will disperse throughout the universe, and become useless. So, life(You), has decreased the entropy of the stone, but, as always, the Universe has had an increase in Entropy. So, when I talk about decreasing entropy is about increasing order, it's really about having useful energy or form.I hope my swerve from "Order" to "Energy" isn't too confusing, but they are kind of interchangeable. In a pure Physics sense, entropy is only ever measured in useful energy, but us non-physicists can also think of it as being a change of pure order to pure disorder.

Judy aka L@dybug from Brooksville, FL, United States

That is one grand recycling center ... it certainly beats what our options are here where we live!

Your interchanges w/Grouser are fascinating, but I think I'll 'lean' on this line: "God created total order, but ever since that moment of creation, the universe has been getting more and more disordered, and further and further away from the grand design." ;D

28 Dec 2011 4:08pm

@Judy aka L@dybug: Everyone must resonate with what is relevant to them.....

Adela Fonts from Barcelona, Spain

Containers well photographed ... no never happened to me Chris! Interesting excellent image and your explanation ... Good your words about "Books and Music"... Best regards, Adela

28 Dec 2011 4:19pm

Don from Spokane, United States

An interesting shot of part of your annual cleaning out process. It's a great idea...and one hard to initiate! :-)
Nice shot of the centre's signs.

28 Dec 2011 4:40pm

Heinz from Hamm, Germany

das sieht sehr gut aus.

28 Dec 2011 4:44pm

Sam from Chennai, India

Beautiful shot of the recycling center. Great signs. And very interesting discussions on Entropy 2. Love it. :)

28 Dec 2011 4:59pm

ursulakatariina from Leixlip, Ireland

Ooooh, it's so cruel to abandon books! I would love to save them all! :)

28 Dec 2011 6:23pm

The Mouse from Glasgow, United Kingdom

You and grouser, whoa wa woo woo!

28 Dec 2011 6:35pm

Isidro from Barcelona, Spain

buena nitidez de estos contenedores de reciclaje

28 Dec 2011 6:45pm

Judy aka L@dybug from Brooksville, FL, United States

PS: I'm glad you left us options! ;D ... I really like your alteration of the Monopoly rules that you shared today. I'm going to pass that along!

28 Dec 2011 6:53pm

john4jack from Corvallis, Oregon, United States

very cool. how much clutter can you clear out before the end of the year???

28 Dec 2011 9:08pm

Jason Politte from Conway, AR, United States

Wow, you sure won't find anything like that in our part of the U.S. Books and music seems like such an odd category unless what they collect is taken to a charity shop and resold. Here, It all just goes into a blue bin and away on the truck. Wonderful shot, Chris.

28 Dec 2011 9:54pm

Dokmateo from Madrid, Spain

Very interesting composition! Nice angle!

28 Dec 2011 10:46pm

kiwisa from North Shore, New Zealand

Recycling is big here as well. Good to know someone else will use our No longer Required,

29 Dec 2011 4:45am

Mary from PA, United States

I agree with God created everything with total order....Man has an incredible ability to screw it all up. But God knew this when He started everything. AND, He will be returning one day, to put things back into total order again.

30 Dec 2011 1:01pm

@Mary: Well, here's a thought or two for you. If God represents/created total order, then whatever the opposite of God is is winning the battle fror the Universe. Well before man was ever on the scene Entropy has been increasing-order going to disorder is observable, and the second law of thermodynamics is true everywhere. So, so far we have the opposite of God winninig the Universal battle. Let's say God does regain control, the arrow of time would have to work the other way, and time would be reversed. So, cup fragments would magically jump off the floor and re-assemble themselves as whole cups on a counter, also, you would start your life as an old person, and become progressively younger, until you are "Born". There's nothing that says that these things can't happen, but it is an odd result of disorder being taken out of the universe. It could happen- who knows...

franz from Baden, Austria

this looks like a highly organised place indeed, and i'm glad (philosphically) they put books and music into the same category as well as puzzled (practically) why they would mix together such different materials ...

30 Dec 2011 2:40pm

franz from Baden, Austria

plus ... i remember being laughed at in britain not so many years ago as "overly organised and fussy" when i mentioned that we were practising recycling and the separation of waste .... so, is your move from just throwing everything on a heap to recycling an example of increasing or of decreasing entropy ?!?

30 Dec 2011 2:42pm

@franz: So let's pick that up as two questions.. I really do think that most people now re-cycle. They don't do it 100% of the time, but they do it. 2)Entropy. Let's say that what I've got is a cardboard box in my hand. I've got a number of options 1)Keep it, and re-use it. 2) Throw it on my compost 3) Take it to the re-cycling 4) Burn it. Remember entropy is a measure of order, and also is increased when heat is given off so. Actually, from an entropy viewpoint, using the box for as long as possible is the best answer-the box retains it's form and function-therefore complexity is high, and heat production is zero. 2)Throw it on the compost. Well, it will degenerate, and maybe will be used as food for microbes. So the entropy of the microbe decreases(It get's more complex), but as it is an inefficient process heat is given off, increasing universal entropy 3)Take it to the tip. The good news is that the structure of the box will be retained(At a fibre level), and can be made into something new, but, the box needs to be transported to the re-cycling plant, and from there to the cardboard facility, and the process itself isn't efficient, so, overall a lot of heat is produced, therefore, the entropy of the universe has gone up 4)Burn it. The ordered structure of the box is converted to Co2 and water. These are highly disordered(After a short while when they have mixed with the rest of the air) and a a whole lot of heat is given off, thereby increasing entropy doubly. So, taking things to the tip is a good option, but not as good as keeping hold of the box and re-using it for as long as possible. I hope this makes sense!

franz from Baden, Austria

thanks, this makes a lot of sense ... i'm really enjoying this blog today as it is trying (and succeeding, as far as i am concerned) to bring order into chaos ... ;-))

30 Dec 2011 7:09pm

Julie L. Brown from Indianapolis, Indiana, United States

That looks like an organized place. Interesting reply to franz.

31 Dec 2011 12:46am

Christine from Ellemford, United Kingdom

That is an amazing size of a place, books and music, that's sad, hope it goes to a good home

5 Jan 2012 8:12pm

Panasonic DMC-TZ20
1/60 second
F/3.3
ISO 640
24 mm (35mm equiv.)